Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

I am second to last in Alpha.  I feel the cold hand of relegation creeping up my leg.

-Arvis

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Nice work Celic!  I doubt Marin has much left for another big match but Simon brought some great game.

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Yep, that was a barn burner VSG.  He has Goran Ivanisevic as his coach now, so that has paid dividends.

20 Queen Droid & BB-8 Cup Wimbledon 14 US Open Yoda Cup16 Wimbledon 14 French Open Alpha Cup12, 13 & 16
King Droid 15 Naboo Cup 14 Lord Vader- RU

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Holy smokes....not gloating but I am amazed by my recent stroke of luck....1st place in Blues and Beta....I might be ready to smell the sweet air of Yoda someday soon!

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Looks like Yoda will be more competitive than ever next year.

-Arvis

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

wow...wawa is getting a run for his money...another 5 set match?  I think so!

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

YAY....wawa demands a 5th set!

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Yep, Hurray big_smile

2016: Rey Saber, Lord Vader, Supreme Jedi, Yoda Crew player of the year
2014: Lord Vader, King Droid, Naboo Champion, Yoda Crew player of the year
2013: Yoda Cup Wimbledon champion, Yoda Cup Guru Runner-up
2012: Yoda Cup Wimbledon champion

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Nishikori is playing some nice tennis...

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Wow.....what a great match....sorry Stan the man...

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

the_lost_scot wrote:

Donut: Male equivalent is easy. Roger Federer. Pretty much nobody can make
an argument against him being the most versatile player in the men's game.
Take advantage of watching him while he is still around because when he leaves you will
not see that kind of ability for a very very long time.

Now, if we are looking for a directly similar player to Radwanska,  that is a more difficult task.
Radwanska has a mediocre serve and has nowhere near the same amount of power as most top
female players. I'd say her shot selection, court awareness, and movement are towards the top of
the women's game.

Finding a successful male player whose power and serve are lacking is hard. Really hard.
This isn't the best fit, but Gilles Simon comes to mind. Moves well and has insanely good
counterpunching ability. He gives players fits because of how he can manipulate an opponents power.
His serve is nowhere near imposing and he does not really possess raw power.

I agree that Simon is probably the best equivalent to Radwanska, especially in the movement department. What about Dolgopolov? Probably not as great in shot selection, terrible actually at times. Also, I am wondering if variety is not rewarded as much on either tour because of the new racquet/string technology that gives everyone added power.

2019 RG Yoda Cup Co-Champion
2016 Yoda Cup Guru
2015 USO Yoda Cup Champion
2014 AO Yoda Cup Champion

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

The good thing is that variety IS rewarded. If it were not, Radwanska would never have reached the heights that she has. She hasn't won a GS, but I hate to judge the quality of a player based on that alone. Being a top 3 player in the world is an awesome achievement, and I just happen to also appreciate how she has been able to accomplish that with her game.

Racquet/String technology led to the baseline games we have today. Players can't simply rush the net since you can get passed with both power and accuracy that was difficult to generate with previous frames. Serve and volley used to be an extremely smart tactic to base your game off of. Now, you must be smarter about when you choose serve/volley and chip/charge. Recently, Federer has been employing these tactics effectively, but even still you can see there are those few times where he fails miserably with these tactics. If he didn't have such great placement with his serve, I would argue it would be near impossible for him to serve and volley the way he is now against players like Djokovic/Nadal/Murray.

New racquet/string technology has helped the return game thus hurt serve/volleyers. Young players are instructed to take very little backswing on returns. If you watched Djokovic and Murray last night, you saw a clinic on how to return effectively: short backswings and have your momentum going forwards (Wawrinka failed to do this and lost because of this). With new technology, a short backswing can generate all the power you need. Returners can take a 125 mph serve and use short swings/forward momentum to crush returns. Good luck serve and volleying when your serve comes back near as hard as you hit it.

Radwanska has a finesse game. She is going to try to outthink her opponent and make sure she gets a lot of balls in play with varying pace and spins. Unfortunately, power games can more than make up for the advantages she has. In any given match, a more powerful player can simply blow her off the court by relentlessly crushing every ball. She may win a few of these kinds of battles, but her odds aren't very high if the opponent is having an A game kind of day. Racquet technology has increased the amount of power/spin off the ground in the ATP/WTA, and this has made it more difficult for players like Radwanska to have success.

And don't forget the fact that new technology allows for more rpm's on your groundstrokes which means greater control which means you can hit with greater power without worrying the ball will sail on you.

Thus, the players that use their variety most effectively must at least have some power to back them up. Ideally, a player should be able to generate their own power and not have to rely on others to feed them. Simon doesn't generate his own power very well, and thus he is only a top 20 kind of talent. Top 20 is a pretty good reward for your efforts though. Really good. Murray has a ton of variety, and he has had success.

Power + Variety = Deadly
Variety by itself = at the mercy of more powerful opponents who may have less variety in their games
Power by itself: Depends on how good you are at your one dimensional game. Look at Sharapova.
Relentless ball bashing works pretty well for her.

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

the_lost_scot wrote:

The good thing is that variety IS rewarded. If it were not, Radwanska would never have reached the heights that she has. She hasn't won a GS, but I hate to judge the quality of a player based on that alone. Being a top 3 player in the world is an awesome achievement, and I just happen to also appreciate how she has been able to accomplish that with her game.

Racquet/String technology led to the baseline games we have today. Players can't simply rush the net since you can get passed with both power and accuracy that was difficult to generate with previous frames. Serve and volley used to be an extremely smart tactic to base your game off of. Now, you must be smarter about when you choose serve/volley and chip/charge. Recently, Federer has been employing these tactics effectively, but even still you can see there are those few times where he fails miserably with these tactics. If he didn't have such great placement with his serve, I would argue it would be near impossible for him to serve and volley the way he is now against players like Djokovic/Nadal/Murray.

New racquet/string technology has helped the return game thus hurt serve/volleyers. Young players are instructed to take very little backswing on returns. If you watched Djokovic and Murray last night, you saw a clinic on how to return effectively: short backswings and have your momentum going forwards (Wawrinka failed to do this and lost because of this). With new technology, a short backswing can generate all the power you need. Returners can take a 125 mph serve and use short swings/forward momentum to crush returns. Good luck serve and volleying when your serve comes back near as hard as you hit it.

Radwanska has a finesse game. She is going to try to outthink her opponent and make sure she gets a lot of balls in play with varying pace and spins. Unfortunately, power games can more than make up for the advantages she has. In any given match, a more powerful player can simply blow her off the court by relentlessly crushing every ball. She may win a few of these kinds of battles, but her odds aren't very high if the opponent is having an A game kind of day. Racquet technology has increased the amount of power/spin off the ground in the ATP/WTA, and this has made it more difficult for players like Radwanska to have success.

And don't forget the fact that new technology allows for more rpm's on your groundstrokes which means greater control which means you can hit with greater power without worrying the ball will sail on you.

Thus, the players that use their variety most effectively must at least have some power to back them up. Ideally, a player should be able to generate their own power and not have to rely on others to feed them. Simon doesn't generate his own power very well, and thus he is only a top 20 kind of talent. Top 20 is a pretty good reward for your efforts though. Really good. Murray has a ton of variety, and he has had success.

Power + Variety = Deadly
Variety by itself = at the mercy of more powerful opponents who may have less variety in their games
Power by itself: Depends on how good you are at your one dimensional game. Look at Sharapova.
Relentless ball bashing works pretty well for her.

Great response, TLS. I appreciate your thoughtfulness, and I agree with your points.
Also, I'd add Isner to the "power by itself" category, based solely on his serve.

Last edited by Wimbledonut (Sep. 4, 2014 12:39pm)

2019 RG Yoda Cup Co-Champion
2016 Yoda Cup Guru
2015 USO Yoda Cup Champion
2014 AO Yoda Cup Champion

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Ok, I am on my luckiest run ever.   As we get into the final stretch....it seems the core dividers will be Serena to win (I have Woz) and will it be Roger or Novak?  (I have Roger).  If I get both of those, I should retire forever.....The reason I think Woz will win is because of all the stats that are being heaped on Serena....I think ultimately that will distract her enough.  Woz has enough experience playing Serena to not be intimidated...and, her game is pretty solid.  I am a little concerned about how much Roger can fill back up the tank again against Cilic....and, Cilic is looking strong even though I have to believe his match against Berdych was more strenuous than he had estimated.  I think Novak is going to have very hard in his SF as well and at the end of the day I believe "maturity" will win the Men's Singles.  Roger is very clear what is at stake here....this could possibly be he last legit shot at a slam win....it seems when he really has to dig deep, he does, he can, and he will.  Over and out from the Vegas Sports Book.  (even though I never go to the Strip to gamble...I am clueless how that stuff works...lol)

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

updated tracker after women's SF
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrbPc … sp=sharing

2017 Supreme Jedi, 2017 Lord Vader, 2017 Chivalrous Wookie, 2015 Naboo Champion, 2018 Big Fat Nothing

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

I hope your luck holds out, Vegas, because I need a Wozniacki win.  I'm not at all confident in that outcome, though.

-Arvis

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

vegastriguy wrote:

Ok, I am on my luckiest run ever.   As we get into the final stretch....it seems the core dividers will be Serena to win (I have Woz) and will it be Roger or Novak?  (I have Roger).  If I get both of those, I should retire forever.....The reason I think Woz will win is because of all the stats that are being heaped on Serena....I think ultimately that will distract her enough.  Woz has enough experience playing Serena to not be intimidated...and, her game is pretty solid.  I am a little concerned about how much Roger can fill back up the tank again against Cilic....and, Cilic is looking strong even though I have to believe his match against Berdych was more strenuous than he had estimated.  I think Novak is going to have very hard in his SF as well and at the end of the day I believe "maturity" will win the Men's Singles.  Roger is very clear what is at stake here....this could possibly be he last legit shot at a slam win....it seems when he really has to dig deep, he does, he can, and he will.  Over and out from the Vegas Sports Book.  (even though I never go to the Strip to gamble...I am clueless how that stuff works...lol)

Congrats on being ranked #1 Overall!   cool  You did pick an awesome team.  Finish Strong!

20 Queen Droid & BB-8 Cup Wimbledon 14 US Open Yoda Cup16 Wimbledon 14 French Open Alpha Cup12, 13 & 16
King Droid 15 Naboo Cup 14 Lord Vader- RU

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Wow......Nishikori IMPRESSED me!  Some beautiful shots.....in the hot humid heat of Flushing Meadows, his exhausted looked was a good fake....beautiful tennis by both players but congrats to Kei.  This obviously makes me feel better about a Roger vs. Kei final but I better not get too far head of myself Cilic.

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

HOLY SMOKES!

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

What a shocker!  that changes the landscape a bit...

2017 Supreme Jedi, 2017 Lord Vader, 2017 Chivalrous Wookie, 2015 Naboo Champion, 2018 Big Fat Nothing

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Who would have thought we would be watching a Nishikori vs. Cilic final?!?! I would have loved Federer to go all the way and win his 18th, but I have to admit that this final which promises a new grand slam champion is exciting!!

Any thoughts on the final match coming up? I don't think anyone could have beaten Cilic today. The question for me is if he can reproduce that quality of tennis in the final or if he peaked in the semifinals. Nishikori, on the other hand, has already beaten Raonic, Wawrinka, and Djokovic!!

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Camdawg wrote:

I don't think anyone could have beaten Cilic today.

I totally agree....three straight aces in the last game....Powerful and smart tennis for Cilic....I just seemed like King Roger could not pull from the depths he normally does. 

I also agree....I am pumped to see a fresh US OPEN final.  And, I am now a big fan of Kei....first impressions did not make him seem that ominous, but, yea, look at the doors he had to knock down...especially in hot, humid weather.  Bravo!

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

How much does this change the men's game?  Should we expect parity?  Or is this a blip from which the big 3 will recover?  Are Nishikori and Cilic going to stick around in the top 10 for awhile?
Is this a reasonable top 10
Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Raonic, Dimitrov, Nishikori, Cilic, Kyrgios, Thiem, Janowicz?  Are we going to have that in 6 months time? (ie goodbye to Murray, Ferrer, Del Potro, Berdych, Tonsga, Gasquet)

2017 Supreme Jedi, 2017 Lord Vader, 2017 Chivalrous Wookie, 2015 Naboo Champion, 2018 Big Fat Nothing

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

Definitely not 6 months, Dwight. Thiem and Kyrios are not ready yet and probably need another year, at least. Janowicz is the new Monfils; he'll never be in the Top 10 for very long.

Re: 2014 US Open Yoda Cup

What about Stan, dwight? wink

Dimitrov, Raonic, Kei will definitely stay in the top10 and slowly climg the ladder. Expect Thiem and Kyrgios to enter the top20 maybe early 2015.

As for Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga I guess they will not get any higher and most probably slowly go down the rankings. Stan as well. I don't know about Murray and Delpo, they are still pretty young. I also expect Roger to stay in the top ten two more years, probably until Rio 2016.

2016: Rey Saber, Lord Vader, Supreme Jedi, Yoda Crew player of the year
2014: Lord Vader, King Droid, Naboo Champion, Yoda Crew player of the year
2013: Yoda Cup Wimbledon champion, Yoda Cup Guru Runner-up
2012: Yoda Cup Wimbledon champion